HINSEY: In January 1961, you moved to Moscow. Let's speak about your decision to move there—did this have to do with the consequences of the independent study group in Vilnius?

VENCLOVA: Yes, I thought that in a big city it would be somewhat easier to escape KGB surveillance. That proved to be the case: my troubles with the authorities were an intra-Lithuanian affair, and it seems that the Moscow KGB, which already had its hands full, was not much interested in my humble person. In any case, I was never again invited to their premises for interrogation or any questioning. But of course there were other causes for my decision to move, which had to do with entering adulthood.

HINSEY: What was Moscow like as a city at that time—what were your impressions of it when you arrived in the winter of 1961?

VENCLOVA: I already knew Moscow, including its museums and theaters that were, and are, among the best in the world. But I had never fallen in love with it, as I had with St. Petersburg/Leningrad. The city was simply too big and chaotic. In one of my poems, I compared it to the Cretan labyrinth, which, in turn, was an allusion to Hades. The premodern architecture was either Byzantine (though most of the churches were in a shabby state, if not totally destroyed), or tasteless nineteenth-century, or, at best, Jugendstil, of which I am not particularly fond. One could find pleasant provincial lanes and nooks here and there—for instance, Kadashevskaya Quay not far from the Kremlin, where I lived for a couple of years—but these were usually overshadowed by Stalinist or grimly Constructivist buildings. There was a great deal of noise and dust, and dirty snow in winter. Most of the apartments I saw were extremely cramped, the stairs were foul-smelling and creaked, and people were generally poor and provincial-looking. One definitely felt the hand of the totalitarian system everywhere: there were lots of police, as well as quiet and frequently apprehensive faces. Many were fearful; on the other hand, boorish behavior and drunken quarrels were rather common and many parts of the city were dangerous at night.